Washblog

US Senate votes 51-47 to bring troops home

by March 2008.
[Front paged, N.M.]

Today, after learning of the Senate vote and previously when the House passed their emergency funding bill, I was struck by the lack of dialogue here and virtually across the board on the liberal and progressive blogs. I get that the result of the vote is not what we seek. Still, we should as a community try to come to an understanding about what these actions mean in the ongoing quest to end this conflict/ occupation.

In the comments of a diary by Lietta Ruger two diaries below, I posted the following comment and the initial exchange between Lietta, Noemie and I, as a start in this evaluation of where our nation is heading:

I find it interesting that with both the US House and Senate having passed emergency spending bills which yes, fund the war, but also fund what the R's did not and call for redeployment by March 2008 that lib blogs are silent. The bills also include significant funding for Katrina rebuilding and VA medical and veterans facility improvements.

These votes represent a vast shift in Washington DC and even if the Pres veto's the negotiated final bill once it passes both chambers. These votes represent a real change and while we should keep up the pressure and expect more to follow, these first steps in the right direction should be celebrated.

Of note in the Senate vote are the facts that our Patty Murray lead the entire bill and R Sen Smith from Oregon was one of only two R's to cross and vote for the bill.

So Lietta, what is your opinion?

Below the fold are comments by first Lietta, then Noemie and finally Particle Man.

I have probably broken some kind of rule here but Lietta's comments in particular get to the core of what I expect many are thinking.

(By Lietta)
Wish it could be more, it is something but enough?
 I'm representing my personal opinion, not that of any organization.  Thank you, Particle Man, for inquiring.  I don't have an easy or quick response, but I appreciate the opportunity to try to articulate - think out loud.
The personal stakes remain very high in our family - my son-in-law is already in training for his second deployment TO IRAQ this year - 2007.  My daughter is not doing so well this go around, and I heard from her yesterday that her husband may be deploying sooner in 2007 than was originally scheduled.

My nephew, who it was thought would not have to redeploy for second tour to Iraq (medical hardship) - heard from him when he was home in WA couple weeks ago that he may also be facing second deployment TO IRAQ - this year, 2007.

We don't know that either are going to survive another combat deployment and live till the 2008 timeline to begin withdrawing troops. So, obviously, I would personally want the Iraq war done and over yesterday.

Many other military families who have loved ones who have already been in 2-3 deployments to Iraq want it over yesterday.  I heard from a military family in WA yesterday who expresses concern and fear that her Marine son, returning Iraq veteran, may be vulnerable to the recent Marine Reserves call up. She fears her son will be called up and have to go again.

I know another military family, a  wife from WA who fears her husband - WA National Guard - will be sent for second combat tour to Iraq. He has received word of that possibility.

Perhaps you saw the Seattle Times media interview,
 'Jared Santos: "I remember when his body came to town' of the two living brothers in Bellingham, WA who were commemorating the death of their brother on the recent 4th anniversary of Iraq war.  The mother, no longer a Blue Star Mother, now a Gold Star Mother, continues to tell of her experience, hoping that other military families will not become Gold Star families.  

These are a few examples among many of the anxieties we face as military families in war time -- subjected to politics that govern the lives of our loved ones in the military.  Many of us don't 'enjoy' politics - we are forced to have to know about politics since in war time, as military families, our lives are impacted and controlled by politicians.  We have a heavy investment in the outcome of political decisions made with regard to this war (as well as other wars previous and future).    

I personally can't afford the luxury of the political chess game - move, counter move, counter-counter move, counter-counter-counter move, etc. etc.  Yet, here is the present reality, and there seems to be few other choices for us as a military family with a heavy stake in the mangement of the Iraq war.  We are subject to the will of politics and political climate when it comes to funding the continuation of the war; and it is my belief we are more directly impacted than others, therefore stake-holders.  We are not on the sidelines watching the tournament unfold, the drama of the game is decidedly more a reality for us as direct stake-holders.

I see a Commander-in-Chief who wasn't kidding when he said this would be a 'long war' and that it would be the next President who would have to deal with Iraq war.  I don't see a wise Commander-in-Chief but an individual who has questionable judgement, yet is persistent in his stubborn positions - irrespective of the cost.  

I see a Congress whom I shall forever fault for giving the President permission to invade Iraq.   Many in Congress were 'old enough' to know better  (having lived through Vietnam war era) and yet did not exercise their better judgment and were (perhaps) stampeded (Sept 11) into giving a yes vote for military invasion into Iraq.  Note; this Administration also well knew the Vietnam war era and well knew how to sell the invasion into Iraq, how to sustain and maintain the occupation of Iraq and how to spin the narrative to foster what they voiced as 'patriotic support' for our men and women in uniform deployed in combat.    

I see an American public willing to be duped; perhaps having to keep their noses to the grindstone - too busy with earning a living.  I see an American public, under-educated in the privileges of civic service in sustaining and maintaing the democracy in which they live.  

I have felt very much betrayed by this Administration, the political process and the American public.  But that was then - and this is  now.  Four years later, going into fifth year.  Initially I had high hopes that if we could have an impact and end the Iraq war in the first year, we could salvage the damage.  Okay, maybe then in the second year....losing hope in the third year, and then the protests grew more substantial with a shift in public acceptance of Iraq war and by the fourth year more of Americans were on board.

Personally, at this time, in the fifth year (deja vue decade long Vietnam war when I was a young military wife) I want Congress to do the best job they can do, preferrable some action that would bring the insanity to an end yesterday.  Is this is the best that Congress can do with Democratic majority?   I honestly don't know.  

It is said they are positioning for the 2008 elections and are comfortable to have more lives expended in Iraq while they get positioned.  You know, I'm not ready to permit myself to quite believe that - which isn't to say it is not possible, but I can't afford to let myself believe that - it is too cynical and without hope. I guess I'm still in need of being naive enough to need the 'hope' that Congress will do the right thing and get our troops home - preferrably now, not 2008.  

It does seem they have a rather nasty President who has a pattern of using signing statements is readily willing to use the power of veto or threaten to use the power of veto. I'm not sure that the exercise of a futile gesture in sending up a bill that won't get the votes is wise, but then, what does Congress have to lose by trying?

We hear that there was enough money already in the works to adequately fund removing the troops from Iraq now - without abandoning any deployed troops.  Was it that this is just not a popular enough concept to be worthy of giving it a try?  We hear there were bills introduced calling for immediate withdrawal that were not even given much of a moments consideration.  Were those not worth a try?  

Yes, I know, I know - why try if it is perceived such bills would fail - not enough votes.  Still, why not try, is the question I ask myself, while conceding that I understand what Congress is saying with the 'not enough votes' mantra.    

I'm not sure I can get through another Iraq deployment for the two in our family without some sense of hope and yet, for the military families I know whose loved ones aren't coming back, reality is sometimes fatal, isn't it?  

"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends." Martin Luther King Jr.

by Lietta Ruger on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 11:37:43 AM PST

 

(by Noemie)
Lietta, your answer here
is an assessment that is very similar to mine -- except that you say it so much more gracefully than I can.
I have felt very down, very discouraged by this supplemental which provides another $100 billion and many more months.

What has me down is not only this length of time -- betweeen now and March or September of 2008 - nor the fact that Bush vows to veto it.  But there is also the matter that I believe this President is thoroughly untrustworthy and that no law and no agreement will keep him from doing what he wants to do -- either by subterfuge or in the open.  I believe we are on the brink of attacking Iran.  This supplemental gives him more ability to not only continue the current actions, but to expand them.

And even the troop pullouts, if they go as planned (I see that as unlikely) represent only a partial withdrawal.  Many troops will remain under the conditions of the supplemental.  In addition, we have a mercenary army there which is neither subject to military nor civilian law -- and which is nearly as large as our military presence.  What happens with them?  Does Halliburton -- now in a Middle Eastern country beyond our laws too -- do they and the other war profiteers stay there?   I think they do.

Every dollar and every moment we give to continue this war, gives Bush and the war profiteers power to entrench further in that country, steal more of its resources, spark yet greater violence, further manipulate the US media and public employees like the regional Attorney Generals, fix elections, search our library records, listen to our phone conversations, torture people, keep habeus corpus suspended, etc.  And we get closer and closer to a situation where, truly, there will be no return.  We may be there already.  

I don't understand how this Congress can pass any law and expect this President to follow it.  Truly, I feel shattered by this supplemental.

by noemie maxwell on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 12:07:48 PM PST

 

(by Particle)
Lietta and Noemie you are not alone.
What I have noticed is near total silence among the Lib Blogs and respectfully, I think this is the result of dreams over what might be possible being shattered by the political realities of thin majorities and an ongoing Bush administration. And no Lietta it most certainly is NOT enough nor is this a time to exhale and feel content. Still, what we have seen over the past two weeks covers more than half the ground between where we were three months ago and where we need to be. Many things are very significant and among them is the fact that the GOP in the Senate chose not to block bringing this bill to a vote they could not win. No war ends on a dime though this one should. With these votes in mind is there any chance Bush will join the British in some sort of retaliation based upon the notion that we cannot stand by while harm is done to our only true allie.
And more to your personal exposure Lietta, you must see that the management of this stinking war is now driven by how few casualties the administration can "afford" politically in a given week. Though this notion is disgusting, you must know that this tolerance is now lower than ever, meaning that fewer of our men and woman are being placed at high risk on a daily basis than was the case just three or four weeks ago.

My own view is that those elected officials who voted for this funding bill should be thanked and without pause asked what they see as the next step and be supported in moving ever forward. It is clear this will not be easy for many to do though failing to exert this friendly pressure would be an excuse for some in the House and Senate to withdraw from the struggle and with narrow majorities this would not help us gain further progress.
Peace to you both.

by Particle Man on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 01:37:45 PM PST

< COMMENTARY: Behind US Army's 'concept vehicles,' another concept is hiding | Deletion this morning of 3 diaries in this section >
Display: Sort:
   Government moves slow and deliberative, as I think you know. So we are naturally inclined to be impatient on this issue.
   I really like the way Chad proposes framing this and also here .
   But, unfortunately, with the razor thin margin we have in the Senate (and really the house also), it will take time for any dramatic changes.

Dave Gibney Pullman

by gibney on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 10:30:39 PM PST

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...because liberals don't do the math. But don't say I care, either. Because that would be a different matter altogether.

OK, this is another "emergency" supplemental full of money and smoke and mirrors largely about things which were largely foreseeable. Somewhere in there, behind the "no pork" pledges and political posturing, is some money for Lietta's nephew. But before it gets to him it has to go through people who will buy free beer for anyone who will listen, and only when it's all gone will they disappear, muttering to some suitably intoxicated "free beer" compadre while handing them the check: "buddy, look at this!!".

Somewhere, on the bottom of it, somebody wrote the Presidents name as the person who is ultimately responsible for cashing the check.

They gave him the check. Does he want to cash it or not?

by m3047 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 07:00:01 PM PST

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Thanks for continuing this discussion at this crucial time. Thanks to Gibney for the links to my previous posts. And thanks most especially to Lietta for starting this discussion with her post "So Congress will you Fund or De-Fund the Iraq War? Supplemental Appropriations Bill Begins Today" from March 15th. In that post, Lietta informed us that Military Families Speak Out was urging a "No" vote on the 'House Supplemental' and pointed out the various flaws in the language - especially the "escape clauses" for each of the directives about troop readiness and deployment times.


In reading the comments from Lietta and Noemie here - views that I know are shared with the vast majority of people I associate with (as opposed to "people I know") - I empathize with the position that we should not be "playing politics" with the lives of the troops and their families. However, as one who has been as vocal as any about the illegality and immorality of the Iraq invasion and occupation since before "the vote" in October of 2002, I have to say that I long ago accepted the fact that, even more than with Vietnam, ending the debacle of Iraq was going to take some serious political compromise. As David Sirota has just written in an op-ed for the Baltimore Sun, "Protesting and legislating to end the war", "To understand the passionate debate about the Iraq war spending bills over the last two weeks in Congress, and why so many committed anti-war Democrats support the House and Senate bills in their current form, we must understand the difference between protesting and legislating. Lawmakers who know how to use both are often movements' most essential actors." I see Sirota's op-ed as an emphasis on my repeated question of late, "When will we see the Kucinich, or Lee, or Woolsey (et al) bills to end the war coming to the floor for a debate and vote?" Again from Sirota, "Had these anti-war lawmakers in the House joined with pro-war Republicans in voting the bill down, some imagine that Democrats would have refused to bring up another version of the bill - thus cutting off all funding for the war. But that outcome is impossible in a Congress whose majority right now may be Democratic but - unfortunately - is not anti-war." If this point is not fully settled, I suggest you review the vote totals for each of these "emergency supplemental" bills again in each chamber.


As to the main theme of Particle Man's post, `why the silence from the liberal blogs'?; I would suggest that there was initial silence out of a real sense of confusion over the result of the vote. There was a strong division amongst the anti-war activists in this country as witnessed by some of the blast emails going out from such groups as Move-on.org (support the bill) and Progressive Democrats of America - PDA (reject the bill). In my posts and in Lynn Allen's post at Evergreen Politics we both acknowledge that the divisions amongst the anti-war legislators in DC were almost enough to prevent passage of these bills. However, what we have now for the first time since the invasion of Iraq, is a United Democratic Majority that is "on record" as requiring a date to end the occupation. As with all good "in the family" disputes, it has taken some time for the dust to settle and for folks to start coming together around the potential for good. I think a quick scan of the more liberal blogs today will show that we are coming together to move forward with the results of these votes.


As to my concern about how the Democrats will frame their votes and what we will see from the MSM, I was heartened to see this today from Alicia Mundy at the Seattle Times: "Democrats fear war limiting Army's future capability" " Dicks and the two state Democrats who serve on the House Armed Services Committee -- Rick Larsen, D-Lake Stevens, and Adam Smith, D-Tacoma -- all voted March 23 for a bill that provides emergency funding for the war but also sets a timeline to withdraw combat troops by August 2008. A similar bill passed the Senate this week.
President Bush has threatened a veto."
She ends with this from Rick Larsen (who, for the first time, has voted for a complete withdrawal of troops from Iraq),

""I voted for our troops. Our troops need that money," Larsen said. "We need to rebuild the military."
He added: "If the president vetoes that bill, then the president is getting in the way."


Peace,
Chad (The Left) Shue

by The Left Shue on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 10:59:45 AM PST

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