Washblog

   Just when I was ready to ignore or rebute you, you post this. It's a valid, cogent and reasonable argument. And one I agree with.

Dave Gibney Pullman

by gibney on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 03:08:44 AM PST

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of what I understand to be Reverend Wright's statement.  We have got off on a track that is spiritually dark, massively violent.  

Rev Wright: "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

It's interesting to me that he mentions the 3-strikes laws, which originated here in Washington state -- and which I've been researching, working on, corresponding with people serving under that law.  If anything could bring damnation down on a country or a people, such a law would be the thing.

However, I see Rev. Wright's attitude, underlying assumptions, as indicating that he may share what I see as a fundamental flaw in thinking that brings us to this dark place -- and that is the idea that the world can be divided into worthy and unworthy and that any human being has a right to judge another on a spiritual level.  That kind of judgment puts a person in the place of a God.  If there is one thing about Christianity I cannot accept, is this idea of damnation. I never got the idea, either, of blessing America.  Why not bless the whole world and the whole of nature and every living being and all of existence?  Why single out one nation for blessing or damnation.

Unfortunately, Reverend Wright's rhetoric may cost Obama the election and bring us deeper into dark times.  We absolutely must find a way to change the habits of mind that bring us to this place.

by noemie maxwell on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 06:09:21 AM PST

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... the world can be divided into worthy and unworthy and that any human being has a right to judge another on a spiritual level. - Noemie's comment above

It is a sad time when politics draws judgmental religious thinking into an arena where inflammatory sermons without fail do more harm than good.

Lietta and I are reading Frank Schaeffer's bio "Crazy for God." Schaeffer's father (Francis Schaeffer) is credited by most as being the theological father of the late 1970's and early 1980's evangelical insertion into activist political dialog although his focus was almost exclusively on opposition to abortion. For example, Operation Rescue's Randall Terry openly credits Francis Schaeffer as his inspiration.

The later chapters of the son's book address Frank's own deteriorating attitude regarding religious celebrities who speak on political issues.

I recommend Frankie's book to anyone with an interest in the history and growth of evangelical political agitation. (For more specifics, go to the The Yurica Report: The Despoiling of America)

Unfortunately, the gates to political preaching were opened 30 or more years ago when purely greedy televangelists recognized an opportunity for greater fame, greater audiences and corresponding cash flow (or notoriety) by taking cues in hate-mongering and anger-mongering from the likes of Limbaugh.

Actually, one could even go further back for inspiration in modeling one's own pulpit political content based on the political activist preaching of Dr. King. King's preaching and speeches gave us the healthiest form of religious/political rhetoric - probably because it stuck to the liberal compassionate philosophy of Christ as found in the New Testament.

Sadly, it now seems commonplace for ignorant and poorly-read political biblicist candidates like McCain to attempt to make hay or lure supporters of the ilk of John Hagee and Rod Parsely. These are those  whose indignation seems to be more patently and deliberate grandstanding as opposed to the assumed sincere and righteous indignation unleashed in Reverend Wright's fire.

In addition, although Hagee's literalist devotion to the end-times fantasy comes across as naive ravings of Donald Duck, there are evangelicals who still naively and passively assumed that the political manure dragged by preachers into their sermons is the same god-talk that Jesus talked.  

The underlying problem to all of this which now seems a permanently-embedded aspect of political life in America (a more effective way to knock down any wall of separation than some constitutionally mandated formality) is how one party using manipulation and newspeak has inserted this kind of nonsense into public discourse.

Traditional and presumably non-self-righteous parties and candidates are nevertheless forced to talk the talk and walk the walk of religious rhetoric whether they want to or not.

Politically, Fake Consultant's words about America's own role in generating the creation of emotional global "IED's" of resentment and downright hatred of this country are on target.

I agree with FC.

Writings like Chalmers Johnson's books and William Blum's "Rogue State" are not refutable unless you are so blindly nationalistic and full of the limitations of jingoism that your proclamation of "America: Love it or Leave It" becomes the unspoken arrogance of your own ignorance as well.

Undeniably, American global imperialism is why the most insignificant of American citizens cannot travel abroad without the need for serious consideration of personal safety, not to
mention the need for much more CASH.

We have the extremely inferior and failed Corporate Free-Market Government-Bail-Out-Supported system to thank for that. (Would Jesus have bailed out Bear who more than likely ruthlessly refused to forgive it's on economic debtors?)

As a members of a global community we Americans are both economic and religious global imperialists. Honest evidence and observation makes that statement is almost impossible to rebut with the use of lying and self-serving rhetoric.

... unless you are a political and religious bigot  taught by shallow contemporary corporate conservatism to believe the at all costs, what is good for American business is good for the whole planet regardless of American Corporate tactics and strategy.

It's the ultimate answer to the growing negative response to an old American cliche:

"Would you buy a used car (do business) with this guy?"

Thank you FC for a well-written and bluntly honest piece. You might want to consider compiling a personal anthology at some point.

Arthur
You sure you ain't staking too much on yer theories? Not enough common sense?

by Arthur Ruger on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 09:59:56 AM PST

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The poll on this story is a little difficult to answer as.... who is the "you"?

At this point, I'm the only person who's voted. Truth, alas, does frequently bite me I must admit, in all states I find myself -- both clueless and clued -- so I can answer generally here.  

by noemie maxwell on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 10:06:45 AM PST

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http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Hughes-America-Again1938.htm

Let America be America Again

Let America be America again. Let it be the dream it used to be. Let it be the pioneer on the plain Seeking a home where he himself is free.

(America never was America to me.)

Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed-- Let it be that great strong land of love Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme That any man be crushed by one above.

(It never was America to me.)

O, let my land be a land where Liberty Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath, But opportunity is real, and life is free, Equality is in the air we breathe.

(There's never been equality for me, Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")

Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark? And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?

I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart, I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars. I am the red man driven from the land, I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek-- And finding only the same old stupid plan Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.

I am the young man, full of strength and hope, Tangled in that ancient endless chain Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land! Of grab the gold!  Of grab the ways of satisfying need! Of work the men! Of take the pay! Of owning everything for one's own greed!

I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil. I am the worker sold to the machine. I am the Negro, servant to you all. I am the people, humble, hungry, mean-- Hungry yet today despite the dream. Beaten yet today--O, Pioneers! I am the man who never got ahead, The poorest worker bartered through the years.

Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream In the Old World while still a serf of kings, Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true, That even yet its mighty daring sings In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned That's made America the land it has become. O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas In search of what I meant to be my home-- For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore, And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea, And torn from Black Africa's strand I came To build a "homeland of the free."

The free?

Who said the free? Not me? Surely not me? The millions on relief today? The millions shot down when we strike? The millions who have nothing for our pay? For all the dreams we've dreamed And all the songs we've sung And all the hopes we've held And all the flags we've hung, The millions who have nothing for our pay-- Except the dream that's almost dead today.

O, let America be America again-- The land that never has been yet-- And yet must be--the land where every man is free. The land that's mine--the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME-- Who made America, Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain, Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain, Must bring back our mighty dream again.

Sure, call me any ugly name you choose-- The steel of freedom does not stain. From those who live like leeches on the people's lives, We must take back our land again, America!

O, yes, I say it plain, America never was America to me, And yet I swear this oath-- America will be!

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death, The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies, We, the people, must redeem The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers. The mountains and the endless plain-- All, all the stretch of these great green states-- And make America again!

http://www.ericblumrich.com/pax.html

Mindfully.org note: Please view the Flash animation created by Eric Blumrich centered on Hughes' powerful poem of America

by eridani on Sun Mar 16, 2008 at 11:22:03 PM PST

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The good pastor is right on the mark in his sermonizing.

I'd like to know when the bleeding hypocrites are going to get after the Wrong Reverend Hagee.

by Karen Backman on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 09:59:27 AM PST

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I have seen some forward motion with relatives' children who are still evangical Christians making more coherent sense of their beliefs, and Hightower talks about it below.

For example, my sister's niece went on a 'mission' to Kosovo, came back and started in the Peace Studies Program (a liberal peacenik thing if there ever was one) at American University.  She works as a nurse in Baltmore, commutes to DC for class and is paying for it herself which is a lot more motivated than I'd ever be.  Her plan is to work with a group like Doctors without Borders.  She wants to be a peacemaker, on the ground in battling areas of the world.  Alot braver than I.

Mainly, I think the politics need to get out of the pulpit.  And, I 'spect abortion rights will likely never be in their lexicon...  

From Democracy Now March 11, 2008
Interview with Jim Hightower about his new book:
Swim Against the Current: Even a Dead Fish Can Go with the Flow

"...AMY GOODMAN: You talk about the conscience of an evangelical.

JIM HIGHTOWER: Well, this is one of the more remarkable things that the progressive side has not figured out yet. There's a profound change taking place among evangelical Christians, really a generational change. They speak of young people, by which they mean younger than fifty. But the older leaders, primarily political leaders of the evangelical movement--James Dobson, Pat Robertson, these folks--are so out of touch with their own movement that the movement is now going around them.

And we write about a fellow, Rich Cizik. He's the chief lobbyist of the National Association of Evangelicals in Washington, D.C. This is the main line. These are not the liberals. This is the main line, thirty million people, 45,000 churches. He had what he calls a second altar call, when he went to a scientific meeting in London on global warming. He was overwhelmed by the science, and then he realized: I have to go talk about this; I can't just be quiet, because the Bible is very clear, you must be the steward, you have to take care of the garden. And obviously, we're not taking care of the garden. And so, it became a biblical awakening. That's how it reached them.

But however it reached them, it doesn't much matter, because the result is that evangelical leaders, particularly some of the younger ones, are now teaming up with Nobel Prize-winning scientists to present a very bold agenda on--not just that we must personally take responsibility, but they talk of a structural sin, by which they mean corporations. We've got to reel in these corporate powers and governments that are sanctioning these corporate actions to be better stewards of our world...."

by ktkeller on Mon Mar 17, 2008 at 08:33:46 PM PST

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You can get it at:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/031808A.shtml

I intellectually understand there was positioning going on, but I wept with joy at the mental health he is offering to our abused country.  That goes a really long way toward getting us into position to recover from 28 years of abuse, and even the abuses that preceeded Reagan.

Randi Rhodes, on Air America, said tonite that we were listening to a statesman, not just a politician.  I agree.

by ktkeller on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 12:09:15 AM PST

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Yes, we need to have these difficult and introspective conversations as a nation.  They are too long overdue.  Thanks for writing this letter.

by charlesdickey on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:01:35 AM PST

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The "controversy" about Obama's pastor, Jeremiah Wright, and Obama's supposed obligation to disown him, is not so much a double standard, as it is the pot calling the kettle, the cast-iron stove, the coal seam where the gas comes from, and the entire pool of oil underneath Saudi Arabia, black - or, rather, "African-American".

This is not even the issue, but to suggest from a Christian perspective that God might "damn" America for racism is simply an undeniable, scriptural truth. In fact it seems to me that the people who have to apologize - as the Catholic Church apologized for its sinful inaction during the Holocaust - are any and all denominations who tolerated and even supported racism for all those dark and shameful decades of American history and dared call themselves "Christian". Before people decide that Jeremiah Wright should be struck down by his Creator, I would suggest they buy and install lighting rods.

And for this nonsense to come from Republicans, who have gladly accepted - and still accept - the messaging, endorsement and support of extreme milenialist, violent, racist, blood-curdlingly sexist and homophobic religious figures who are charlatans, proven grifters and purveyors of an ignorance which not only rivals but sometimes surpasses that of the most loony Islamists, is an act of gall which shocks the mind into disbelief.

To bring it out of the religious, I have two words for those of you who can remember: Warren Moon. One of the best quarterbacks of all time and he had to play some of his best years in Canada because we were too racist a country to believe that a black guy might be "ready to lead" so much as a bunch of freakin' goons on a football field.

by dlaw on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 07:15:18 PM PST

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