Washblog

On October 4, 2006, Pierce County Commissioner Mary Dicke ordered a woman - a legal immigrant, but without a work permit - to get a job despite her lack of a green card. The woman's husband, a US Cititzen, filed for divorce and took all the woman's documentation. She has been a stay at home mom for several years, and has never obtained a green card. Now, the husband says he shouldn't have to pay spousal support because she is able-bodied. The woman's attorney argued fervently against the commissioner's ruling, telling the commissioner directly that what she was ordering was illegal. Commissioner Dicke responded, "I don't know what to tell you. People do it all the time."

The case is Petersen v. Carrillo-Cortez, Pierce Co. Case No. 06-3-00736-0. I'm trying to get this to the media, but so far, no go. Here's the link to the case docket sheet.

Here's a partial transcript of the hearing:


Partial transcript - Case No. 06-3-00736-0, 10/4/06, 9:30 a.m., Commissioner Mary Dicke presiding.

[Hearing begins at 10:04:15 a.m.]

[Transcript begins at 10:10:54]

Counsel Belinda Armijo: As far as employment, we have continuously, as is listed in my client's declaration, asked for my client's property; specifically, her immigration documents. The husband has refused to provide these documents; further he has refused to aid his wife in her petition to further her...her...

Commissioner Mary Dicke: So what exactly does he have to do? I don't know the process for her to get her work permit. What exactly...

Armijo: Well, first of all, he needs to give her, her paper work back and he's refused to do that since the inception of this case. He won't even give her her - there's a green luggage that we've asked for over and over that he has possession of that has her original documents and her documentation and he won't give it to her and all along he has said, "I will not help you petition - get your paper work." And he - in that her process for getting her work permit will take much longer. And in that for him to stand here and says, "She's not working." What does he expect her to do? He knows the consequences of her situation at this time.

Commissioner Dicke: So was she able to work before without a work permit?

Armijo: No.

Commissioner Dicke: She has not worked at all during the term of the marriage?

Armijo: No. Not to my knowledge, she has not worked at all during the term of their marriage that I know of. Not since the birth of their child they have a little boy and she stays home with him.

... [Parties discuss parentings issues for a couple of minutes.]

Commissioner Dicke: [W]hat about getting her, her immigration paper work cooperating in terms of getting her a work permit?

Counsel Christopher Boutelle: With respect to that, this was requested in April. We informed that court at that time we didn't have that information, we weren't living at the home at the time. We had been put out of the home, and she stayed in the home for another month. When we came back she had taken everything out of the home, or out of the apartment, and since then there is no apartment anymore, it was returned or the apartment lease was terminated. At the time that the parties were married, or right before they were married, the petitioner, or excuse me, the respondent was employed at Ostrom Mushroom Factory. She also worked for her sister as a caterer. Prior to that she worked 10 years in California at a hospital.

Commissioner Dicke: Obviously working these days without paper work is a little bit more dicey than it's been in the past; it's a pretty high profile problem.

Boutelle: And we don't have that information and in fact in April I believe they indicated that they will have to go and get some, you know, start this process over again. I have no idea what the process is to get a work permit. All you have to do as far as I know is produce proof and you can get that from the immigration people that you're here legally and have a social security card and you can apply for a work permit. I don't know what else there is involved in it.

Commissioner Dicke: Okay, Ms. Armijo he says he doesn't have it. Now, of course we are in this position often. I mean, do I have some concerns, he does have a history you know of theft, burglary does that affect my view of his creditability? Yeah, probably does. Um but what are our options, if, let's say, it's lost. What are our options? I mean I can - the trial court's gonna have to decide. He has a history of issues that involve, you know, moral turpitude. I mean, I consider theft being one of those kind of cases that would give me some reason to be concerned about his credibility. But he says he doesn't have it.

Boutelle: It would be beneficial to him to get her that information so she can get a job. I mean that's our whole issue is...

Commissioner Dicke: What do I have to, what has to happen if she can't find her paperwork?

Armijo: Everything's in there - her birth certificate, her passport - everything's in there. And, you know, it disappeared. So I - this - she's in a horrible situation. And she was not in that apartment. He changed the locks, this lady's been through a rough time. He doesn't support her financially, and it's a horrible situation. The immigration process that Mr. Boutelle explained is completely inaccurate.

Commissioner Dicke: Can you get a letter from some immigration attorney to tell us what we need to - I mean, I don't know what to do. I mean, obviously I'm not going to terminate his maintenance at this time, because there are allegations he hasn't cooperated and his history gives me reason to be concerned about the possibility of him not cooperating. He has to give me confidence. But she also has to show a good effort to try to find employment without a green card, she needs to provide that to Mr. Boutelle, there may be still some jobs out there, there still are certainly a lot of people hire without green cards right now. So that certainly is something we want to get accomplished. But I think we need to get a letter from a immigration.... Let's say we never get this paperwork back, how do we reconstruct it, what's involved in that?

Armijo: She would have to request her birth certificate from Mexico, from the civil registry in Mexico, have it translated from someone here, she's gonna have to...

Commissioner Dicke: I think she better get started on it, 'cause he's alleging he's not finding it.

Armijo: Correct.

Boutelle: And she's had six months to do this, and also if she's got a passport, then all she has to do is apply for a duplicate passport, the same as we would do if we lose our passport.

Commissioner Dicke: Well, I'm gonna require her to undergo a work search, and regardless of having a green card, I'm going to have her required to initiate the process of reconstructing her paperwork, and I'm assuming that we're coming back for review anyway because you're alleging he's lost his employment.

Boutelle: And so with respect, you've ruled that maintenance is not terminated at this time, when can we file, when can we review the maintenance issue? In other words, I don't want to be back here in two weeks with all the information concerning his injury.

Commissioner Dicke: It's gonna take her a while. You can come back, I mean, with the injury issue there may an independent basis for terminating. The fact that he hasn't while working, he's not current in his obligation, he lacks a little bit of credibility with the court, frankly, in terms of asking for affirmative belief, you have to come into court with clean hands. If he hasn't paid his child support, he hasn't paid his maintenance, and he's come to court and saying oh gee whiz, you should be terminating it on my behalf, you know, I'm gonna say, well you know, you haven't done what you're supposed to do, so I'm gonna have some real concerns about providing you some affirmative relief - your credibility is pretty much questioned at this point, so I can't tell you, it was raised, although not documented, that he is behind in his maintenance and his child support.

Armijo: And his fees, were awarded to me.

Boutelle: We admit that he's behind on his current support, that's because of the automobile accident. The state has been taking it out of his wages up until the time he got hurt, but we'll deal with that, I guess, down the road.

Commissioner Dicke: Deal with it later. I mean, if he's hurt that may be, unfortunately for her, an independent basis for reviewing maintenance.

Armijo: What are his injuries, 'cause he looks healthy to me today. He's here; he's walking.

Commissioner Dicke: Well obviously they're going to have to provide documentation from a licensed physician, not only indicating his injuries, but indicating how they affect his employability. But I'm not gonna terminate the restraints, but I am affirmatively gonna require her to (1) initiate a job search without a green card and see where she gets. It may not be the best jobs in the world, but the trouble is we have a little kid, and unless you make some decent money, daycare is gonna offset any benefit from working.

Armijo: And just - no, you can not be employed without a green card - it's illegal.

Commissioner Dicke: I don't know what to tell you about that, people do it all the time. She's still could see whether someone will offer her - I'm not sure when you say it's illegal, what's gonna happen to her?

Armijo: you don't have a social security number without.

Commissioner Dicke: She may apply and get nowhere.

Armijo: OK.

Commissioner Dicke: She has to initiate reconstruction of her documents.

Armijo: Oh, yeah.

[Transcript concludes at 10:20:50.]

[Hearing concludes at 10:22:02 a.m.]


Our justice system has enough problems without judges and commissioners being allowed to order people to break the law. This story needs to get out there!