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Obama and Clinton agree--

[Ed Note: I'd like to see comparative discussion of these agreement points. A.R.] *that imposing an "oil law" on Iraq for the purposes of outright theft is a good idea
*that we should maintain an ongoing presence in Iraq to defend a Vatican-sized embassy built with slave labor
*that we can afford to continue funding an American military empire
*that we should be spending even more on the military and increasing its size
*that US military intervention in the rest of the world is just social work done with M-16s, JDAMs and cluster bombs
(continued)

*that media consolidation should continue
*that the criminal Bush administration should never be held to account for anything
*that the assault on our Constitution is not a real campaign issue
*that the health care risk pool of all Americans should continue to be fragmented, and therefore much more expensive than a single risk pool
*that private insurers should dictate the course of health care reform
*that suppression of Democratic votes is not really a campaign issue
*that the prison-industrial complex is a critical part of our economy that should be expanded
*that AIPAC actually represents the opinions of American Jews
*that Palestinians are disposable human garbage
*that "terrorism" is an actual problem instead of being the symptom of a problem
*that we should continue to attempt to control the diminishing resource of oil by force, even if the spending on that goal undercuts the opposing goal of inventing the next energy economy

They used to agree that "free" trade and outsourcing was a good idea, until the campaigns of Kucinich and Edwards (and probably feedback from their own supporters) convinced them that alienating the Dem voting base on this issue was a bad idea.

That said, the only way that we will get any change on the really important issues I listed above is by pressure from below, and either will be much more susceptible to such pressure than the psychotic McCain. Either is capable, if faced with a serious economic/ecological shitstorm of saying "Thanks for the wads of cash, haves and have mores, but I have to act for the good of the whole country right now."

Wearing my policy wonk hat, there are no significant differences between them (even though I'd like to be an Uncommitted delegate and go to Denver to ask both some hard questions), I've noticed that Uncommitted will not make the 15% threshold in our LD caucuses, so I'll have to make a choice. I took off the policy wonk hat and put on my party organizer hat and have to go with Obama because of the campaign he is running. It is a real 50 state campaign, he had a plan on what to do if Super Tuesday was not decisive, and he is bringing many more new people into political activism.

So, fellow policy wonks, I urge you to be ready for the inevitable disillusionment of Obama supporters, and have in place effective and practical ways for them to do real work on issues that matter to them, and to participate in the rejuvenation of the Dem party structure.

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What, if anything, the candidates have said about that embassy; the number of military installations to remain in Iraq and why?

I'd like to see a thoughtful response from each rather than a sound bite that addresses the Chalmers Johnson version of American global imperialism.

I'd like to know in something other than shallow move-to-the-next question sound bites whether or not our candidates believe that the muzzle of American weapons need to be laid on the table before global American-sponsored social work can begin.

I'd like to see what these candidates believe can actually be attempted in order to rein in media that tells us what it think will sell or lure advertisers rather than be comprehensive truth-tellers.

I'd like to know what they think should be attempted in order to protect the Consitution from special interest and ideological manipulation by the few at the expense of the many.

Health Care?

I'd like to see candidates explain and rationalize a serious look at unversional health care that treats health care as a public right equally available to all, just like we do now with un-privatized police, fire departments.

But if our free-market capitalists insist that we MUST in some way pay for health care - what are our candidates' view on perhaps doing so in the same way communities access public utility services - where the objective is service to all  at a price fair and verifiably reasonable to all levels of cosumers.

We do not have to accept a health care program permitted by insurers. There is a way to take them entirely out of the equation if necessary and such is a legitimate option worthy of  consideration - if we are serious about health care reform.

I do not understand why we would consciously and willfully accept that insurance companies and medical providers are entitled to huge incomes because there is no other way to do things in this people's America.  

Arthur
You sure you ain't staking too much on yer theories? Not enough common sense?

by Arthur Ruger on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 10:23:57 AM PST

* 1 none 0 *


Why both candidates are trapped in this fear-generating frame is quite beyond me.

Terrorism (or "Islamofascism") is not the problem; it just one SYMPTOM of the problem. The problem is the alienation and despair resulting from economic polarization and intense conflict over resources in an overpopulated and overconsuming world. If you live in an Islamic country, of course fundie Islam is right there for you. If you live in India, you can join one of any number of Hindu fundie groups that get off on disembowelling pregnant Muslim women and stuffing them full of burning rags. Japan? Try Aum Shinrikyo or one of the crackpot Shinto sects. America? Lots of Christian Taliban groups just waiting for you to get in on all the misogynistic, racist, homophobic fun activities they have to offer, anything from burning abortion clinics to blowing up government buildings with fertilizer bombs. Not Christian? No problem! Plenty of neo-pagan Racial Holy War groups around, and Heaven's Gate cults as well. Not a "joiner"? All you need is a few guns to go shoot up a school all by yourself. Live in a place like South Korea with tough gun control laws? Just take a milk bottle full of of gasoline and light it off in a crowded Seoul subway at rush hour.

Get the picture? It's the alienation, stupid! Overall, there is some bad news and some good news about these random threats of violence that have been around for most of human history. The good news is that only a tiny minority, say less than 0.1% of us, is psychopathic enough to actually follow through with perpetrating serious mayhem on civilian populations. The bad news is that 0.1% of 6 billion is 6 million. Do more cheerleading for "free" trade, corporate dictatorship and US military domination of the rest of the world, and you can expect to see a lot more alienated people breaking loose. Turning ourselves into the most fear-ridden locked-down society in the world will not stop it. The assault on our Constitution and the Bill of Rights has not made us the slightest bit safer. Nor will "defending" our slave-labor built Iraq embassy, or maintaining 700+ military bases around the world.

by eridani on Thu Feb 21, 2008 at 03:31:31 PM PST

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 and I admit that I don't quite understand the tone of this discussion.  Maybe I'm too dense to have picked up on the nuances of the points erdani listed in areas where he believes they do agree.  I haven't heard that in the debates I've listened to - all 19 of them!  I think if the points are being stated as facts, then it would be helpful to show the connect the dots.  Otherwise it sounds like a lot of the angry rhetoric, much like much of what I've heard these past 5 years that has done little to move anyone forward.  If anything, it seems to have flattened some movements that seemingly were moving forward.

But hey, I'm an Obama delegate for my precinct, and do believe his approach to be my bit of hope for an end to the Iraq war.  Although, with Turkey having invaded Iraq now chasing Kurds, who knows what Bush will do next with the time he has left.

On the Surge in Iraq "--we have set the bar so low it's buried in the sand at this point." - Barack Obama

by Lietta Ruger on Fri Feb 22, 2008 at 12:43:28 PM PST

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